Haley-Grace McCormick on writing through her first heartbreak and transforming The Enemy of Time

Hi angels, welcome back to another episode of Booked N Busy

This is my podcast for the girlies who cry a lot when reading or just feel a lot of emotions and we kind of deep dive them on this podcast

And today we're specifically talking with an incredible author and quite frankly the only female that's made me cry in the past 6 months of my life and I ugly cried at this

Insert the video of me balling my eyes out in Tampa, which I'll talk about later in the episode

This is the novel The Enemy of Time by Haley Grace McCormick

Pretty quick read

Haley Grace McCormick just released this book in February, I believe

Um gut-wrenching

Absolutely gut-wrenching, but she's also a social media personality

She's really funny in my opinion and I am obsessed with her content and I feel like it's kind of similar to what I do here on Booked N Busy

She was a BookTok creator and now she's a author

So I'm very excited to talk about that pipeline with her

Haley Grace McCormick, welcome to Booked N Busy

Thank you for having me. >> and thank you for being here

So basically this is the most depressing book I would say I have personally ever read, but for anyone who has not read this beautiful book, could you give them a little synopsis and pitch before we get into the deep diving and all the spoiler alerts? Yeah, absolutely

So it is a love story between Alex and Jamie, but it's also a story about found family and friendship

You have this whole group of, you know, four friends that are going through their childhood together and it's told within 24 hours in the present timeline, but you know, we have all these moments in the past that really equal up to who they are in that present and the whole point of the story is really to help you kind of just have this moment of, you know, speak now, say it now, love now because tomorrow isn't forever

And at the end of the day, you know, we only have one moment to make every second of our life count because your moment is right now

You're in the middle of it and, you know, just having all of that come together and and show that through childhood and present and past and all these moments that equal up to what your present is in the moment

It's a great elevator pitch

Thank you

Great elevator pitch

So if this book had parents, yes, who would the parents be? >> Oh my gosh, okay, so we have like friends to lovers of Love, Rosie

Love that one

Love that

The book and the film beautiful

Um and then I also more of that friends to lovers, but like that timeline and showing how somebody grows and changes in relationship and how maybe you're not the right person for somebody in this second, but in this second you are

You need to grab that. >> Yeah

That particular aspect of the story is definitely from like One Day and I love using One Day as an example because >> Yeah. beautiful book, gorgeous book

Then you have a movie that again is a very different representation of the book, but also gives this point across

Then you had the TV show

That was The TV show was mind mind-boggling. >> Mind-boggling and it's one of my favorite um one of my favorite pieces of of art because it's lived in three different ways and it still told the same message every single time

If I had to give two, that's kind of where they would be. >> When I read this, there was a sense of familiarity and now that you say One Day, that makes But I didn't know what I was like kind of referencing it to, but now that you say One Day, I'm like, "Oh." Cuz also I just read People We Meet on Vacation and I feel like it also has that kind of like the back and forth of timeline

I loved in this book because it was written over a 24-hour period

I liked following the cuz you would do like timestamps, obviously, and I liked following that along

Thank you

I was very picky about those timestamps

I really I drew every single one of those

That's like the clock. >> Yeah

You have the book and then you have like the time because again, being very dyslexic as I am, >> Yeah

I wanted neurodivergents to have little breaking moments in the story cuz I feel like even if you're ADHD, you kind of have like where your brain you need a break for a moment from from words and from stuff, you know, on a page. >> From words

From words and so having those little pictures in there, it helps people like me in the neurodivergent community say, "Oh, okay, I know what's going on

I know where I am in this story." and it's very quick to just, "Okay, I can go right into the next one without being like, wait, what did I just read? Where are they now?" So I was very picky about those timestamps

Very bad

Well, made me understand it better, so [laughter] I'm hoping I'm hoping it made other people understand. >> [gasps] >> What inspired this book to like write the most gut-wrenching piece of literature that I've read? You know, it was one of those things that the story actually [laughter] came all together in a college class

I was in a short story class and I will admit I was not the happiest to be writing short stories because I was like, "I want to be a novel writer

Why am I doing this?" Um and I'm so glad I did because it teaches you how to get a message across really fast and uh she posed a really interesting question, which was, "If you had to ask your younger self one thing, if you could tell your younger self one thing, what would it be?" And make a quote

And I was like, "Okay, that's not going to dig up childhood trauma at all." And >> [laughter] >> like I'll be fine here. >> And I had just moved at the time and so I went into my bedroom and I started ripping open boxes to find old journals

Cuz I was like, "I need to remember >> Yeah. who I was, what was I thinking as a kid?" >> Mhm

Um and you very quickly realize you're like, "Wow, that that never needs to be seen

We should burn this one." And, you know, going through them and kind of laughing at your younger self

I had an entry about a boy that I was absolutely obsessed with apparently when I was like 13 or 14

Mhm

So obsessed that there is like pages where I had obviously cried cuz there was dried tears on these pages and you can like see the smudged ink

And I I was huge

Mhm

In my mind I should be thinking like, "Oh, poor, you know, young me." And in reality I was dying laughing >> Mhm. over something that was obviously so important to me, but now as, you know, 20-year-old me I I'm laughing at that younger version

And so the idea started coming from this idea of like, you know, when [clears throat] you think about all the things that you wish you would have done or you wish you would have said

I really wanted to tell my younger self, you know, speak now, act now, love now because tomorrow isn't forever

And so that was kind of the quote that started the short story and then my professor said, "Your characters have more to say." And I was like, "Yes, now we get to go into that novel

I get what I want out of this." Wow

Yeah, I have a lot of journals at home and every time I go home and I read them, I wish I didn't do that because I start getting really emo and then I just cry and then my mom has to come in and be like, "What's wrong?" and I'm like, "Oh, I'm reading this like gut-wrenching entry from when I was 12 years old and in love with this boy who didn't even know I existed." >> Exactly

I'm like, "Right, right." Okay, there's four characters in this book

Four main characters I would say

And I guess from what we're hearing, why did you choose the number four? Because I would say when you're writing, that makes a lot of sense because you have four people to like create dialogue with cuz sometimes with two people it's like But I feel like four is a specific number because when you're in a group of four people of friends, I feel like it's set up for success where you're like, "Oh, so supposed two people are going to be friends and two people are going to be friends." But somehow there's always someone that's left out in the group and that's what I feel like I related to with the main character because spoiler, I'm just I have to get through this

Because obviously we find out that she thinks those two hooked up and, you know, they obviously don't

The lonely aspect that she felt where she had thought all three of the closest people in her life had turned on her, that's what I related to most in the book because fortunately I have not related to the grief part

I'm very grateful and I pray every [laughter] day for that

But why did you choose four characters? Was that something that was siphoned from the journal entries or was that like as you were writing? Yeah, absolutely

So I really wanted to show, you know, this bond and relationship with, you know, female friendships in particular

And obviously a lot of the story is focused around the love story with, you know, Alex and Jamie, but I wanted to show female friendships and and the ups and downs with all that and the beauty that, you know, comes with it all

And then I also wanted to show a sibling relationship and and one that maybe wasn't the typical, you know, uh sibling relationship where it was this blended family and so I I think there were so many layers to get to explore with all of that

And so that was really why four was such a big deal to me

It was that I wanted to show all these different aspects of relationship and of friendship

Um and I you know, I think I'm a huge fan of like The Breakfast Club and of, you know, having these stories of all these different people that somehow find a connecting piece together

And I wanted to tell the story that we all have a way to connect with each other even if you're the most different human on the planet

And that was Jamie

Jamie was the person that was like would connect them all

That was like actually the one piece that I was thinking about throughout the book of like why is there these three characters that were introduced because I was telling her before we started recording, I did not read the the blimp

Is that what you call it? I call it a blurb. >> Like like a blurb or yeah

I oftentimes with books I don't read them

I judge based off the cover and so when I started reading, they were talking about a friend group before, but there was only three characters having any dialogue

So I was waiting and I was waiting for Jamie to come and I was waiting and then it got to a point where I was like, "Has Jamie ever come? Does Jamie come?" Right

And we find out Jamie never comes

So that was a little depressing

I started it out on my flight to Tampa. 3-hour plane ride, you know, I was just reading the entire time

Get to Tampa, I'm like, "Okay, I'm like 70% done with the book at this point and it's the night before I have a big shoot

I'm really excited about this

Yeah, you know where this is going

Again, guys, had no idea this was going to be a gut-wrenching story

And I think I had like 30, 40 pages left

So I was like, "Okay, I'm going to read like 15 right now and then I'm going to shower and then I'm going to read maybe potentially read the rest." I read a little bit and that was when I started connecting the dots that Jamie might potentially not spoiler be alive. >> Mhm

Because there was that specific quote or I guess scene that Jamie's dad gave the package to her and was like, "He would have wanted you to have this." And I felt like specifically that sentence was like, "Well, what do you mean he would have want like" I feel like the past tense of it kind of was tripping me out

So I took my shower and I'm in the shower and, you know, like most girls I like think about books while I'm in the shower. >> Yeah

And I'm showering and I'm like, "Okay, like that was really weird, right?" Like he wouldn't have used past tense if he was currently living

So, I get in the shower and I'm like, "Okay, I have to finish it now because what else am I going to do with my life besides sleep?" >> [sighs and gasps] >> Oh, I posted on my story

I was bawling like I have not cried over a book like that in ages

I don't know I was so emotionally connected to Jamie or I don't know how I was connected to any of them but besides through your storytelling

But, by the end, I was so The best way of saying is emo

I was just like, "What is going on? So, why why was that the end?" Like, did you know when you were creating this book that he was going to be passed away the entire time? Like, this 5-year high school reunion that you make it seem like is actually Jamie's funeral, which makes it Oh my god, I do not want to start crying

It makes it just 10 times more depressing because the whole time you're thinking like that you can relate to this dynamic of like, "Oh, you're going to your high school reunion." And I was thinking about that from my perspective cuz my high school has never had a reunion and and I or I've never been invited

Um and I was thinking I was like, "Ugh, maybe I want to throw my own." Like, I had all these like positive thoughts going on

Yeah

Why? That's my question

It's like, why? Yeah, you know, it That was really So, that that when I originally wrote the short story for this, that was the ending

The short story was really just her in these in this, you know, kind of 24-hour time period and there was no flashbacks in the that

It was really just her kind of going through these moments and, you know, there was one or two flashbacks about like, you know, a prom moment when she's running her hands on her old prom dress in her closet

So, it's little things like that in the short story

But, I had always had this ending that I knew needed to be said and I that's what I wanted to wrap it all together with

Okay

And so, when I was writing the book, trying to figure out, you know, I had a beginning and I had an ending, but, you know, what's this middle and and why do I want people to care about these characters and what do they have to say? Um and I'm glad that you said that you you connected with the characters because I wanted every character to be so different from each other that everyone could relate to somebody in this story even in the smallest amount, you know, what it was

You know, when it came down to the ending, you know, Alex is very much an unreliable narrator in some sense because she's lying to herself pretty much the entire time

She will not admit it until reality is smacking her in the face

She's walking to the doors

Literally walking in and I wanted the reader to experience exactly what Alex was experiencing as her world is kind of crumbling and as she's allowing herself to realize like, "Okay, this is actually happening and this is this is my world now

This is my reality." And her own enemy of time is facing her, you know, right there

And I want people to feel this importance of like, "Okay, I need to say something to the person that I love when I feel it because, again, we don't know when tomorrow is our last tomorrow

We don't know when that moment is just gone." Well, two things

After I finished this book, I did text every single person that I'm is near and dear to my heart and I was like, "Hey, just letting you know I love you." Um number one, number two

So, if you had the beginning and the end, what process did it look like when you were filling in the blanks? Like, are you like how is your writing process? Do are you like a sticky note type of person? Do you like figure out certain scenes? How is yours looking? So, you know, my my original writing process was so detailed and so organized

I was always so proud of myself for how I would write

And then I wrote this story and blew it all up 100% um as you should do as any good writer

And I decided to get like um you know, index cards

Yeah, I went for the index card method and I had told my parents, "Oh, don't worry

I'm just going to lay out this idea in my head

I need this timeline." And I had had scenes almost like a scene card when you're doing like a screenplay

And I had these scenes that I knew needed to be said and my my whole thing is like if a scene doesn't if the scene doesn't connect the reader to a feeling, then it's not needed

And so, I kind of had like the scene and then why it was needed, the scene and then what was the lesson

And that's also kind of where, you know, the little poems come in

It's like, "Okay, how do I bring in this feeling in making somebody have an emotional response whether that's happiness, grief, or anger, or whatever it may be." Secondhand embarrassment happens a lot, I feel like, in the story. >> [laughter] >> I feel like it happens a lot in the story

But, and I wanted people to feel that

And so, as I was writing it, I literally had all these little index cards and I had laid them on my kitchen floor in a line thinking that I'm going to be done in a day

It's going to be totally fine

We can eat dinner

We did not eat dinner for a week

It was a DoorDash moment

Um and You just kept it all there. >> kept it all there and I literally like stuck it to the floor cuz we had like tile, thank goodness

And so, I could like stick it all to the floor

And at the very end of that week, I, you know, I grabbed the note cards and then I put them on a a ring basically

I felt like I was back in high school making study notes or something

And from there, that's where I started

I would take a scene card out and we would write that scene and then they all just kind of started piling together into chapters, but it was very messy and not organized and I would throw chapters out at like randomly

Mom would see them just flying in the house somewhere

I literally would throw them

Is there any that you like wish you kept in or was there someone that was like, "Oh, maybe you shouldn't keep this in." Yeah, I actually I had a I had like a tree fort building scene when they're like 13

And I thought it was really cute because you have like Lucas who's that, you know, very sturdy

He's got everything on his little checklist

We love him

Um and then you have Alex who's just a mess of a human at all times in her life

It was a sibling dynamic chapter that I was trying to put in there to show like how he's yelling at her and how she's yelling at him and But, I think you do a good job of that without [laughter] even that

There was points in time where I could also see obviously I don't have a brother, but I have a older sister and I could kind of relate to them and almost kind of like wish I had their dynamic a little bit because I feel like they have this very like back and forth relationship, but at the end of the day, I feel like he's always going to be her protector and he's always going to like watch out for her

And the whole thing with Kayla, I think this was in the first couple chapters where she's really angry at him for still being with Kayla or like that we Are they supposed to be together? Are they not supposed to be together? Why is he getting back with her if she hooked up with Jamie? Like, there was a lot of points where I was on Alex's side and I was like, "Oh, I do see where she's coming from." Like, if I was in that position, I would be just as angry at my older brother for getting back with the cheating girl

But, then we find out that doesn't happen

Speaking of that scene, what possessed that to kind of come about of like the fake cheating situation and why do you think Lucas never told her or why don't you think any of them ever told her? To protect her? That was the idea, you know, I really wanted to show again, it was another one of those lesson moments

It was like miscommunication

We forget to have those moments with people and to take that time to like really understand like, "What is going through your mind?" Like, you may have hurt me deeply, but why? Like, what is going on with you, too? When you don't communicate and you don't share your feelings back and forth with somebody, then life can get messy and we don't have a lot of time for it to be messy

And so, this miscommunication, you know, kind of trope within the story was there to, one, you know, play obviously a little bit of a lesson, but two, you know, show like, "Okay, for them, the whole group was, you know, Alex is not going to leave without Jamie." And Jamie's in a position where he can't leave now because of what, you know, happens at the party

And so, he can't leave and he is not going to hold her back because everything in his life is to move her forward

And I think he comes to this realization he's like he can't be selfish with her and he wants her to go have her life and he wants to see her succeed

And Kayla's [clears throat] that same kind of person, you know, she's like, "I am not, you know, I I She totally agrees in that moment of like, "You're right

She needs to move forward." And I think Kayla's also this character that feels like she's holding Lucas back when she's young

And so, I think you >> She has this, you know, she's the life of the party

She's this big personality, but she's also one of the more She's always self-reflective and she's very hard on herself at the same time

And I feel like we all kind of know a person maybe or maybe we are that person who is, you know, in the crowd and you're you have the perfect stage life, right? And then boom, you go right back home and you don't feel like that you're that person and it's very much the smoke and mirrors reality

And so, that was kind of Kayla's character

She had a lot of this self-doubt that no one else sees

And Lucas is always there to kind of bring her back up. >> Mhm

But, she again comes back to that, you know, her mother left her when she was young

And there's that feeling of like not being enough

And so, I think she's kind of self-protecting herself in this moment because she's scared

I think Kayla was supposed to be self-protecting of like, "If I have the life I want, that's almost scarier to her." And so, she kind of self-protects in the name of protecting Alex and then Jamie's always going to be there for Alex's, you know, character

Um and then he realizes later on in life that like, "Oh my gosh, wait

I made the wrong choice cuz she's still not doing what she should be doing." >> [laughter and gasps] >> She's still in love with me

She's still not like with me

She's still living her life

And, you know, that's where he grows up and he finds who he is, but she hasn't figured it out yet

All of that messiness again

Wow

That was a complicated answer for >> Yeah, no

I'm debriefing it in my head, but Did you cry while while writing any of the scenes? >> Yeah, I cried the most during You cried the most >> most. [laughter] I cried on every scene

I I genuinely and I'm not like a big crier and that's kind of the funny thing in my family even

Like, my mom and dad used to like say I was made of stone basically cuz I just would not cry

I feel like they would never say that about me

I cry about [laughter] everything

I was like, "Are you I could not cry." Like, maybe a couple sad movies here and there

And like writing this story, I was bawling on a daily basis and my mom was so happy

She's like, "She has a heart." Like, you know, like it's one of those moments like she she can cry

But, I was I was just bawling with the story, but I think the most that I cried was the scene where Jamie does let Alex go

And, you know, he's basically breaking her and she's begging him not to

Um and I I think I cried the most cuz I understood both of them in that moment

I understood where he was coming from and I understood obviously where she's coming from

And that miscommunication again

And I think I was yelling at my own characters and myself for writing it

I'm like, "What How dare I do this?" Um but >> [laughter] [gasps] >> but yeah, I think it was that scene that got me

The ending really should have been the worst, but that was the catalyst to the ending in my mind

Mhm

And so, I bawled the most there

In that specific scene, who are you picturing? Do you have like inspiration from people or is it like do are you picturing like an actor or like a childhood friend? Like who who is in that moment? Because I'm obviously not a writer

I can't put myself into the mindset of like when you are writing such an intense scene like that

I feel like in my life I would have to attach that person to someone and kind of think like what would they do? Does that make sense? Do you do that or Absolutely

And I think I think all authors we do have like a memory or a moment with somebody that then we expand and we make it bigger for, you know, the story

And I had, you know, I definitely had people in my life that you can love somebody so wholeheartedly and still know you have to let them go

I'm not good at that. >> No, and it it's it's terrible

I don't think I've ever done that in my entire life, by the way

I would do that and I'm like, "Oh, that's so good for you." I just don't think I could

Right

And and I I think that, you know, for me I I joke about this and I I probably shouldn't joke about it, but he knows I joke about this, which is, you know, I at the same time I was writing this story I was going through my first real love and my first real heartbreak

And at what age was that then? So I I was 20 one. >> When you were doing like the note card thing? >> Yeah, I was I was 21 and I was I was 23

I cannot imagine doing that

That's crazy. [laughter] I was like I was desperately in love with this person and, you know, while writing the first draft and then the second draft we broke up

So it was great. >> [laughter] >> Did you change things during the second draft because of it? Absolutely

Cuz I then I finally knew heartbreak and I knew what it was like to love someone so dearly but not be with them and not, you know, for whatever reasons, you know, it may be in life that you can't always be with that person

Um and so I always say to them all the time like I'm so happy that you happened and we're really good friends, but I'm like I'm so glad you broke me

Mhm

Cuz it's like that's I know a lot of um artists they'll be like, "I'm so happy I just got my heartbroken because this album is going to be crazy." >> Right. >> [laughter] >> I feel like it's like similar kind of So in the first draft to the second draft, was there any like huge shifts that like was like did the ending change or did anything like that happen in between the two that was influenced by that? You know, it was a lot of the middle was changed actually and I I kept the beginning and the ending pretty solid to what I wanted it always to be

There was a lot of these moments in the middle that after I I did experience heartbreak for the first time and, you know, after I I did kind of, you know, flip through my old my old journals again and really try to understand where my brain was with friends and things, then I realized I was like, "Wait, this character would not do this

This is not, you know, it's not accurate to what somebody would be going through in this moment." So I I tore out major sections of it to rewrite so that way again it would connect back to readers and they'd be like, "Oh, I went through that

Oh, I felt that." So yeah, 100%. >> happy that you did that emotion thing with the like on the note card where you would do the scene with the emotion cuz I feel like well, to write a good book do you you have to have the feelings behind it because if your reader is not feeling what the main character is going through, for me at least, I put myself in the shoes that I am that character

I am Alex for the time that I'm reading this book

And maybe that's not the healthiest way of looking at life because sometimes I read really gut-wrenching things like this and then I'm a mess after for like a week

Um What chapter do you think currently was added in, I guess I'm going to go with first like was the hardest to write? The hardest chapter that was added in was it was after I had turned in the book to my my publisher at the time

And so this was pretty far into the process but you know, you're in your mind you're thinking I did amazing. >> [laughter] >> Done

Check this off

There's no edits

Um not the case

My, you know, my my publisher was like, "Hey, you know, we we love everything

We love the concept of all this but we she was like, you know, this is a this isn't an adult love story and if it's adult, you know, we already had one, you know, romantic scene of the two characters, you know." She was like, "But we could do something like we could have another like we can have something good, you know." >> [laughter] >> I was like, "You know what? You're 100% right

Let's try it." I'm going to put a chapter and I had the chapter of kind of that, you know, their the reunion moment and, you know, in in Boston and I was very, you know, I wanted it in Boston

I wanted the city life kind of feel to it and I went into my room and I was like, "Okay, let me think about this

How do I write like classy spice? Don't you want to figure [laughter] out like the nicest He said such a good way of putting it. >> way to do this and, you know, it was it was the funniest experience because I was literally in my bed I had books surrounding me and I also had my my computer screen up because I I'm a big movie person

I love movies and television and to me some of those best romance scenes are really the cinematic moments and in sometimes in in literature we miss some of that that beauty of just like the simple hand touch of something

And so that's what I was trying to figure out how to put in there

How do you properly write a scene that's going to be romantic also still, you know, good

But in that romance, you know, meaning of it all cuz these characters have been through so much

They deserve to have a cinematic love scene

And so that was the one that was I was really trying to figure out how to write

I was panicking literally writing this and my my mom came into the room

She sees all of this literature in front and she knows what these are

She's got Tik Tok

She knows what these [laughter] are

She had Tik Tok

And she kind of just looks at me and goes, "Okay." And closed the door

That was it

She didn't ask me any questions

She went downstairs

She made some lunch, did her thing

And I I wrote the scene and I was content with it and I have this thing where I make my parents read it out loud to me

I make my dad read my stuff out loud to me because I'm very What? >> Yeah, so I'm really dyslexic so I got to hear it. >> know that

Yes. >> to hear it

And so like he had been reading the whole book with me and so he was excited to hear that we were adding a chapter

Did I tell him what chapter we were adding? No

That's not a fun conversation to have with my old dad. >> [laughter] >> That was my face

And and he, you know, I I didn't tell him as he goes to read it

He starts reading it out loud

He goes, "Am I Is is this Is this what we're Oh

I need the wine

And so >> [laughter] >> I need the wine

We got some cabernet system and then everything was fine but it was so funny and it really was the hardest scene for me to write cuz I had never had to write anything like that

But then it became probably my favorite chapter to add in because it was such a funny moment to have not only with my parents but like just being that new writer, you know, a debut writer trying to learn how to write spice

Could not do by the way

That I give every author who is able to do that in like a a beautiful way cuz sometimes I read it and I'm like, "Okay, that like just really didn't need to be in there, babe." But sometimes when it's like needed and it makes sense, I'm like, "Wow, that was actually a beautiful portrayal of it." So interesting that that was the hardest scene

Cuz I wouldn't I don't know

I guess I've just never really thought about that in that capacity

Okay, kind of switching up cuz I want to talk about this theme which is the theme of growing apart and I feel like you write it in such a beautiful way that I could strongly relate to because I think growing up and growing apart from friends, especially like high school friends, is a bit peculiar sometimes and because not always is there a reason you're not friends with someone someone anymore

It's life gets crazy and Oh my gosh, just probably four weeks ago now I met these two girls in Fort Lauderdale and I was like, "Oh my god, they're going to be my new best friends." Hung out for like a week straight, had wine nights every night

I was like, "This is my dream." Like we're playing card games

I'm like, "Sign me the up." Like I will move here

And then I come back to New York and I come back to my normal lifestyle and, you know, like I text them every so often and we keep in touch and we'll FaceTime

But I feel like you wrote it obviously without social media involved in such a beautiful way that growing apart isn't necessarily always a negative thing and that it's not always where a huge fight has to happen and that you stop talking to someone because that was really hard for me

I haven't read or even watched that many things where people just slowly grow apart and there's not really a reason for it

And I feel like you write it very beautifully

Is that something that had you like gone through so you knew how to write that or was that something that you were self-discovering in that moment cuz you were 21? Yeah, you know, absolutely

I think we've all gone through it

I I think, you know, no matter who you are you've gone through that process where, you know, we're all growing and we're all changing constantly with with life and I mean, gosh, think about when you were in high school and then think about college and then think about after that and now being in your first job and in doing what you're doing

And it's you just grow and you change so much as a person and you're not going to change and grow at the same rate that And that's a really hard thing and it's sad

Um but at the same time, you know, I I have this big belief that, you know, people are in our lives for a reason but sometimes they're only in it for a chapter

They're not in it for the full book or the full ending

I always say that because I literally always say that

And that's I feel like how I cope with this problem that I sometimes have is I try to think like people come into my life for certain reason

I was in Barcelona, I think

This was maybe three years ago and I like followed this guy who was like a snow skier for a few years and he just looked like a cool human. >> Yeah

And I ended up posting that I was in Barcelona and he was like, "Oh my god, like I'm born and raised here

If you want me to like take you around, I'd love that." I was like, "Sign me up." He took me like surfing, skating, into like a few restaurants

And I told him I was going to to Tahiti in like two-ish weeks and he was like, "No way, my step sister's there right now

Like you have to meet her." And it's one of those situations where you're like, "Yeah, like okay." And this island of Tahiti I'm just going to like meet up with this girl that like and I'd only met him like what, two or three times

Fast forward, I'm in Tahiti and so there's like the little island of Tahiti and then right next to it is is an even smaller island called Moorea and I stay on Moorea every time that I go

I'm on the ferry from Moorea to Tahiti and this girl comes up to me

Keeping in mind, I have a bottle of tequila in one hand and a Red Bull in the other. >> As you should

She's like, "Is your name Olivia?" And I was like, "Yeah." And she's like, "You were just with my brother in Barcelona." And I was like, this ferry holds like maybe 50 people

There's no way that you're on my ferry right now

Like, what? So, I called him in that moment and was like, this was freaking like exactly proving your point

Like, people come into your life for a specific reason and for You know, she was maybe only in my life for like a week and a half, 2 weeks while I was there, but we had like the best time ever

And we went diving, we went surfing, and she took me here, and she took me there because she lived there

And, you know, we talk every so often

We eventually grew apart because that's what happens in adulthood. >> Yes

But, like while I was reading, I was simultaneously being reminded of things where I did have really close friends

But, anyways, I don't know what how I got into that story

No, and and exactly I think it you know it so much is like talking about like just how even you said it

You know, an experience that you had during all of that might teach you something in the future, right? You just never know why people come into our lives and why we have these connections

And I also think it's okay to grow apart from somebody and then find them 10 years down the line and then pick up exactly where you've left off

There's something really beautiful about that as well

And it's these connections that you've made with people that they don't have to be in your life every single day, but they're going to continually make a difference in your life

I definitely had, you know, friends and stuff that I've I've had to for big reasons had to let go of and it still kills me

And I and I have friends that again, like you said, they just you grow apart and you change

You still love them

That feeling is still there, you know, and you have a deep respect for them

But, we can move on now

And it's okay to move on

It's okay to give yourself permission to move on

That's a beautiful way of looking at it

Cuz I always get so guilty Mhm. with myself for being like, oh, this is another random example

I like communicate with the closest people in my life, all my close friends via Instagram

So, I'll post like mini life updates every like two or three weeks and just like kind of explain what has happened

And that way my friends can find out kind of feel like they're still on FaceTime with me

And then they'll slide up and we'll talk about it

And I feel like that's my way that I've coped with it. >> You know, I tried to be a FaceTime person

I I that's what I always thought cuz I you know I grew up moving a lot

I I moved 15 times by the time I was 23

So, wait, why? Yeah, I I my father will blame it all on him

Honestly, [laughter] like he had a really cool job

He was in the hotel industry

And so, when he was done, you know, helping a hotel succeed, we moved on to the next one

Sadly, he was really good at his job, so he left really fast

Um, but you know What was I don't mean to cut you off, but what was your favorite place that you lived? >> Ooh, the most beautiful place I ever lived was Park City, Utah

Really? >> Gorgeous

And actually I lived right in this area called Midway at the time

And when I lived there, it was very underdeveloped

So, you just had these rolling hills

You looked like you were in like Lord of the Rings

Like it was breathtaking

Uh, so I just a gorgeous like place was just a it was so wonderful to grow up when I was so young there

And then high school was in Tennessee

So, for me I'm a big Tennessee girl like Smoky Mountains, Gatlinburg, Sevierville

That was my considered home

So, those are like my two favorite spots I ever lived

But, I was born in California as well

So, I love anywhere in California

All my family's in California

So, those are like my three hubs

Wow

So, you've just really been everywhere

I've Yeah, I've been hopping around, you know, forever at this point

But, because of that, I've like gotten this opportunity to like I have so many friends as you said like everywhere, right? I mean, yours is like a little bit more glamorous

Going to different like countries, let's talk about that

But, That's crazy

Do you keep in contact with any of those people? Or is it that situation where it's like you have grown apart [snorts] with them? I kept in contact with so many of my people for so long

And then you do get to a point in your life where, you know, people are getting married, they're having babe, which by the way that just blows my mind in general

But, they're you know they're having children and and they are having their own little lives

They're starting their own little storybooks, right? And I'm in a different part of my life

And so, you do start losing contact

And because of that, it went from FaceTiming my friends all the time down to, you know, a good example is actually me and my my closest girlfriend

We have stayed We've worked to stay in contact

Like we worked to stay in contact. >> have to put in effort. >> Have to put in effort

And she's my my girl that like we can go months without talking and we will send each other We do it once a month

We will send a like 10-minute voice memo

And it's like a podcast of our lives together

We don't have to answer

We have rules

Like we don't have to answer each other

We just want to hear from each other

And it takes off so much pressure also

It's like, oh, I don't have to like text her right back and be like, hey, I'm so sorry

I'll get to that in a second here

She's so sweet

And like we do it with each other where it's like, we'll send you a crazy long voice memo

When you're ready to listen to it and when you're ready to respond, awesome

It can be months in between, but that's how we keep up with each other and each other's lives

Like she's not even in this country right now

And we're still doing this

That's kind of like an ongoing bit with me and my friends is like I will send maybe not a 10-minute voice note, but I'll send like three 5-minute ones

And I'll just send like a bunch of blurbs

Specifically with my one friend Renee, she like just had a baby

So, that's why we used to do FaceTime before she was with child

Now she's with child

I'll just send her a voice note and I'll be like, "Take care of the baby." >> Yes. "Whenever you have a free moment in the next few weeks, listen to this." And then she won't answer for 2 weeks

And then I get like 30 text messages like, "What about this? And what about this?" And so, honestly, that's a very relatable way of looking at it

And it's so much like less pressure

I feel like we put so much pressure on ourselves in anything in life, but specifically keeping up with people

And it should be fun. >> It's communicating

It's talking

It's not serious like at all

Like I have a a friend in in California

Like she actually came She flew all the way down to Myrtle Beach to do an event with me

Claire Margaret Donovan, she's amazing

And we do the same thing

We send these crazy long voice memos

She has a ton going on in life

And so, when we find our our chance to get to send something together, we do

And it's it's so much fun

It's like no time has passed

That's so wholesome

I guess what I want to kind of go into next is this obviously came out in February

From having conversations with other authors, I understand the pipeline of books

Are you working on anything else currently? And where did those inspirations come from? I am

I'm always I'm always working on something

I I my brain doesn't sleep

It's actually like a problem

People have to force me to like actually rest. >> don't have to force me

Really? I actually don't have to force me

You know, I think especially like I I had been kind of working on stuff during this this book as well

And when you go on your book tour, there's so much like there's this creative energy with all these people that are coming up and they're they're telling you, you know, what did they connect with and maybe what did they not connect with

And that's what I love to hear all the different takes on on the story because it helps me be a better writer in the future cuz I can say, okay, I didn't connect here

How do I fix that and for my next one? And so, my brain just starts going crazy

And, you know, I have these other stories that I've been dying to get back to

And so, now I I have that ability that I can kind of dig my hands into it a little bit more

And I will always write something within a love story

I love I love love. >> Okay

Right

I want that in there

And I want to write all versions of love and the ups and downs that it comes with

But, I want to get to experience a few other genres now, too

So, I have two that I'm like I don't know which one's going to hit the pipeline first, but I have a It's like a psychological thriller romance

Wait

Can you describe it like a book that is out? Like some like mix like if you had to make a baby between a few, what would that kind of look like? If if there was like a Have you ever read The Silent Patient? No, but yeah, I know a lot of people who have. >> That vibe

Okay

But, add in Shutter Island the movie

Wait. >> [laughter] >> Wait. >> And then add in like a Titanic style romance

The most confusing things I could have ever just given you all of that

Those are really very strong topics, too

Like very very strong movies or I guess films and books

Wow

Yes

Well, that sounds like a great baby, to be honest

I'm so excited [laughter] for it

And I have a friend who he's an actor and he looks The funniest thing is I had kind of written the base

I had actually written this in a screenplay format originally a long time ago

And I was like, oh, I can't wait to like develop that into a book

And I'm one of my friends looks identical to the main boy in this

And I wrote it before I ever met him

And so, like we were in person recently together

And I was like I'm staring at him

I'm like, "Huh

You look like a psychopath." And he was like, "What? Excuse me?" >> [laughter] >> I'm like, "I mean that in the nicest way." Now I finally have like a face to work with

And I love having like casting in my brain for it

So, I'm like, haha, now I have someone to to work with on this

So, that's the my next one

And then I definitely want to dive into I have a fantasy romance that I really want to play with

So, those are my two next drafts

And like, wow. from this

Very different

But, I was also talking with I think this was Alex Astra, I believe

She was explaining like 10 years ago it was really hard to like genre run around

And nowadays, it's a lot more normalized. >> she's so right

And in the past we were not supposed to do that

Writers were supposed to kind of like stick in your in your lane

Keep writing what you write

And I think, you know, that's great

And some writers are just beautiful at doing that

I think I'm just too ADD and I need to hop and move and play around

It's kind of like movies

And I always talk about like, you know, if you went to an ice cream shop and you only ever got vanilla

Vanilla is good, but you're going to be missing out on like mint chocolate chip and all the other good stuff there

So, you got to you got to play around

Great analogy

That's a >> [laughter] >> great one

Wow

Well, Stanny, is there anything else you want to or if there's any other topics that you feel that people should understand about the book? Ooh, um, I do always like to tell people that once you're done reading the book, once you finished it, take a look at the cover because the cover kind of explains a lot of the story

And I love to hear >> Wait. >> from people about that

Really? >> It does

It >> Can you help me explain that? Cuz I did not do that

So, that's like that's why I love like when I was doing like I was on tour recently with, you know, all the different stops

And somebody had only one person had figured it out

And I thought that was so cool

It was like this little hidden mystery of the story

Is it the time? Uh-huh

The time is marked on a very specific part of the story

It's actually in the story

She says it in like the last I think it's like the last two pages

She'll say it within there

Now I kind of want to look

Um >> Yeah

So that's like kind of brings the whole story and if like you see the front is Boston, it's because >> Yeah, I did recognize that. >> driving back in at that time

I didn't put that two and two together

Wow

Okay, also feet spoiler obviously because this whole majority of this is spoiler, but Jamie was taken from this world at 7:42, killed by a drunk driver on the wrong side of the road

And so on the cover it's 7:42 p.m. >> Yeah

Wow, in Boston. >> driving back into Boston

And on the very back you can see a time clock with them and that's their future slipping away

I [laughter] kind of I kind of understood that one when I was looking at that

But wow, I did not even put two and two together that was 7:42. >> little self-indulgent moment there

Yeah. >> about the cover

Wait, really quick before we're done with this, I want you to talk about the epilogue because I didn't talk about I didn't read it because I didn't have I did not read it

I didn't have the the book that had the epilogue in it

Okay, now to preface that. >> Yes

But [laughter] continue

Cuz what is it? It's about Kayla and Jamie's wedding

So yeah, it's Kayla and Lucas's kind of like >> not Jamie

Sorry. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that would have been a really big plot change

Um you know, I I wanted to show, you know, for me I knew the ending

From day one I knew how I wanted it to end

I wanted it to be a gut punch and I wanted it at the end of the day life just ends

And that's what I wanted in the story and I wanted this very final moment in there cuz again this idea of like we don't get back time, it's just done

And I wanted that for the story, but you know, listening to people who had read the story and who had read the arcs, they liked that but at the same time they were like, I want more

And everybody was craving a just a little extra ending to understand, okay, now that we see where these characters have come, I'd like to see where they go

And it was a very interesting moment because I have this um freelance editor who is extremely good friend of mine who I make read everything I do because she is she's blunt but in like a peanut butter way

Do you know what I mean? Like it's like she just smooths everything out

I just love her for that

And she writes the best notes and stuff to things

The arcs were sent out, the book was sent out, the book was done and I sent it to her because I was like, I need your opinion

Something is off for the readers, there's something missing

They need something more and I want to give that

That at the end of the day I write so that a reader can enjoy it, you know, and if if something's not connecting then that means I haven't finished my job

And so she told me she was like, I understand what they're saying

I need more

And she's like, I really think we need to add an epilogue in there

And she's like, I think you need to show where are these characters, you know, six months down the line, a year down the line

Like where are they and how did this journey change them? She's like, that's what we're missing

And so I created the epilogue

I sent it to her and she bawled but this time with a more of a happy bawling. >> [laughter] >> And that's what I I wanted wanted a happier ending in a way that obviously it's a sad story but you can have a light at the end of darkness

And that's what the epilogue was meant to show was, you know, there is a happily ever after for everyone in the story, it's just not in the way that you're that you think it is. expect it

Not how I was expecting it

Let's [laughter] tell you that

I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to like fully read it when I get home because if it makes me cry I don't want to cry. >> It's like only three pages

I swear it's a really super short [laughter] one

But it gets it gets a lot of the clarification I feel like for readers

Um well, thank you so much for coming on

This is so beautiful

Well, thank you for having me

This was so much fun. >> And peep the fit, guys

The blue

Oh, and we also just didn't do this but we have our beverage of the day. >> Yes

This is from a place called Tostique

So it's banana almond milk, spirulina and some type of berry

I'm not sure why but it's blue because obviously this is blue

Oh, that was such an ugly No, it was great

Beautiful. [laughter] Okay, can I taste that though? I'm going to be so unclassy there

That's fine

Oh, it's like cinnamon

Mhm, it was like banana cinnamon bread. >> Yeah

Oh, that's Okay, that's what I was going to say

Smash, I like it

Very [music] good

Um well, thank you so much for coming on

Thank you so much. >> [music]