Hi angels, it is Olivia Pontton and welcome to this week's episode of Booked and Busy. [music] This is my podcast series [music] for the girlies who love to read
And today I'm very excited because I have an incredible author joining today
Julia Whan is not your average author
She's not just an author, she's also an incredible audiobooks narrator with over 700 audio books under her belt
My Oxford Year was also adapted into a movie earlier this year
So, we're going to get into all things book and movie related today
Julia is here today to share her incredible story
So, grab your favorite beverage and let's dive in. >> Julia Wellen, welcome to Booked Busy. >> Thank you for having me
Each episode, we do a beverage of the day
And obviously, because today, my Oxford year, we had to do English breakfast tea
So, we got it from Gregory's
Good old Gregory's
I loved hot tea
It's honestly, you couldn't get more
Look, you have a pyramid sache
I mean, it's a it's a good quality. [laughter] >> It is
Thank you. [gasps] Today, I want to talk about all things my Oxford ear because it's the first book that I'm doing that has a movie adaptation. >> Oh, I see
Okay
Something new and different. >> Yeah
It's exciting for me
But so, I want to go into all things that, but first of I want to talk about you as an author because that's why I quite literally started Booked and Busy
So talk me through like a day in the life of writing like your writing process. >> Okay, that's a very good question because I think it's different for me than for anyone else because I have like three other jobs
So because my day job is audiobook narration and that requires a lot of obviously reading uh as well as recording and I also have my own company
So I don't have a lot of time to write
If I'm lucky, I get a couple of hours in the morning when I'm in practice, like when I'm actually chugging along on a specific project, I have to be one of those people who wakes up at like 5 in the morning, doesn't check anything, and just goes right into the story because as soon as I like get in the inbox and all of the other demands on my time start happening, >> and I usually burn out after like four or five hours, I know that usually after 5 hours, it's diminishing returns. like anything I write after that point is going to get deleted the next day
So that's >> at least you have that in your head cuz for me >> like I've obviously I've never written a book but I just think about the process and I'm like I can't imagine locking myself into an office and being like >> create an incredible story right now. >> Well, it's creating a terrible story first
So like you can't set that on yourself
Like it's just that first draft is just words on the page
Like you can't you can't fix something that doesn't exist, right? So you have to make it exist first
How many drafts of Max for? >> I write a lot of drafts
I do probably like seven or eight drafts
Um, >> seven, eight drafts, like seven or eight books. >> Well, versions of it or or specific chapters that need extra work, so I'll go back
But the first always I actually don't like drafting
A lot of writers don't like editing
I don't like drafting because I don't the blank page scares me and it's so bad as it's coming out and I have standards and I'm like, "This is terrible
No one's ever going to read this." And then I have to remind myself that I can make it better
So >> yeah, editing is my favorite part. >> It's the most timeconuming for me
Not that I am an author, but in my instinct, >> but it's most timeconuming, but it is the most rewarding because you look at the project and you're like, "Oh my god, this sucks
It's terrible
Let me make it really pretty." >> So there is a there's beauty in it
So after you have this like long stretch of like four to five hours, how are you unwinding afterwards? This is my problem is that I don't so I go right into emails
I go right into the booth
I go back into my other jobs and so I don't have a good unwind schedule. [laughter] >> So on like a day-to-day basis, how much are you reading like in the booth? >> Yeah
So I capped I started capping myself at two finished hours per day
So audiobooks is all based on like we we calculate things by finished hours
So, how long the audiobook ends up being, which has nothing to do with how long it takes to prep it to record it, right? But so, I will stop at two finished hours in the booth, which is about 4 hours in the actual studio
And that's just because of my voice and my attention span and my ability to focus and make sure I'm doing justice to the book that I'm recording and I can't get tired and distracted. >> I hear the audio book
Well, I've got a mic in front of me, so I'm a little bit like usually my speaking voice is very different from my narration voice, but this is tricking my mind into being like, are we are we performing now? So, >> oh my gosh
I think with audiobooks, the one thing that I always get confused about is like how you keep when when you're narrating, you're monotoned to a certain degree
How do you keep that? >> How do you cuz when I talk, I'm like I you know, jump around
How does your brain are you just trained by that point >> when you record? I mean, here you don't have it, but do you ever record with cans on, with headphones on? So, when you hear cans, that's what we call them
I'm old enough to remember now
So, [laughter] when you have your own the sound of your own voice kind of bouncing around in your head, it really focuses and consolidates the tone because you don't you would like start to annoy yourself
You'd be like, "Oh gosh, that's really dynamic and really high." So, >> so you hear yourself when you're talking >> so I can it it kind of just tightens everything in and like focuses it on the mic
So I and I also think obviously for me it's a different thing if when I'm talking when I'm just conversational it's much more dynamic
It's there's range because I'm expressing myself when I'm performing I'm actually trying to create an experience for the listener that has some consistency and throughine
Sorry it's consistency and throughine. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay
So what's one thing that you've learned about yourself since becoming an author that has affected your normal day-to-day life? >> Oh that's a very very good question
Um, I do tend to see the world through a lens of character and story
So, I come from an acting background. >> I was a child actor
So, the writing is still kind of an extension of like that larger tree of storytelling
And I've noticed that sometimes I have to turn off the writer part of my brain in day-to-day life
Like we're sitting here and I could be I absolutely see a story >> here and I can like see I can storyify anything and sometimes I just have to remind myself to live an actual human life in the moment and experience things and not try to storyify it. >> Do you do that with movies as like >> when you're watching movie can you watch the movie a see that's >> sometimes if it's really good or it's something that I would not know how to make like my favorite thing is it's hard to read books when you know how books are made
It's hard to watch movies when you know how movies are made
But I sometimes when something is so outside of my understanding, then I can detach and enjoy it. >> What's your favorite genre to >> watch? >> Watch. [sighs] >> I like everything
I'm a generalist
I'm Same with books
I don't have a favorite genre
I really Yeah, as long as it's well executed, anything. >> See, I'm the complete opposite
Once I find my obsession, I will try to read every single book or movie. >> Okay
Okay
So, my question back to you about that is why? Like, is it just I just want more of that hit, that dopamine hit or are you looking for like I want to find the perfect? >> No, I think it's comfort and then if I know I enjoy an author's writing style or similarly with a movie like if I know I like a character
With both, it's kind of hard to completely lose yourself. like when you're going into being a character for acting, you're still yourself at the end of the day
Even though you're embodying someone else, like we were talking about with Sophia in the movie, like she still kind of has this thing about her and no matter what film she does, she's still going to have that grace about her
And I think I enjoy that also with books is with the authors
Yes, they'll share different story times and story lines and dialogue and characters, but at the core of it, they're still them as a human
So they bring in aspects. >> There's a voice. >> Yeah
And you I feel like it's a comfort thing and I know that that's what I'm going to enjoy. >> I'm going to be in good hands
I already like this experience
I Yeah
Yeah
Yeah
I understand. >> Yeah
So I think that's my Maybe it's a comfort thing
Maybe it's because I'm scared to get out of it
Yeah. >> Risk it. >> Cuz a book is like it's a commitment. >> It's like 12 hours of your life
That's a lot for me. >> Tell me about it. [laughter] >> Yeah
So, it's like if I'm going to sit down and read this 4 to 600 page book, I don't want to get 250 pages in and be like, "Dang, I really don't like this." Like, I will not not finish a book. >> I have to see it through. >> I've only not finished two books and both of them are by the same author and I just concluded that like their writing style is just not meant for me
And which is funny because my best friend that those are her favorite books ever and I'm like I think we just prefer different things
Yeah
What's something that I feel like readers or listeners would be shocked to know about you on a personal level? >> I think people would probably be surprised to know that I don't listen to audio books. >> See, there we go. >> Because um >> most of them are probably in your voice. [laughter] >> Well, there's that
I don't listen to myself, so what could possibly be left? No, it's um No, I mean, I do it for professional reasons
Um but I I don't have a commute, right? So, I walk from my bedroom to my kitchen to my booth
And I also have so much narrative in my head at any given time
I've got the book that I'm currently recording
I've got the book that I'm prepping to record next
I've got all of the books that were running through Audio Brewery, which is my own publishing company
Like I just have enough narrative and I can't possibly have yet another voice in my head. >> Do you listen to music then? >> I do. >> Okay. >> Music is actually the And even sometimes I can't listen to music with lyrics
Like if I've just had too many, it's been a big word day. [laughter] >> Wait, I get that. >> I'm like, I'd like some instrumental, please. >> Yeah
I have a playlist on Spotify
It's called like anti-anxiety frequencies
And I'm not even like having anxiety
I just can't bear the voice of like a Sabrina Carpenter just like in my voice
I'm like or in my ear
I'm like, "Okay, I just need background noise, but something instrumental." >> Yeah. >> Do you have any hobbies that you work on outside of I don't I don't have any hobbies that aren't books. you know what my new hobby is cuz I [clears throat] was like you need something but then even just the idea of taking on something else in my life was so overwhelming that I'm trying this thing which is I h my hobby is nothing so my hobby is doing nothing >> just sitting there >> yes and if I can successfully like I try to take a half day on the weekend >> um and that's when I try to do my hobby >> of [laughter] just nothing honestly I weirdly really relate to this because I am someone who is go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go go and I feel like if I'm not going I am very unproductive
So the past kind of year and a half I've slowly been turning that narrative that doing nothing is actually productive and sometimes you need just a moment to calm down and take a beat
I'm not really good at that
Well, and I think I I used I I very much I think this might be an age thing as well
Like I very much was that person for sure
And part of the reason that I have the career that I have is because I can't not professionalize the hobbies that I do where I'm like I I want to do more of this
I'm going to I let's make money doing this
It's a very slippery slope for me
So like right now the practice is how do I give my brain the time to rest? It's not picking up something else
It's not trying to do something else or fill time
I never need time filled because I'm a writer
I could always be writing
And there's that part of my brain, too, that's like if you have an extra hour, why aren't you writing? >> Yeah, cuz that's how I am with reading
I'm like, "Oh, if I just have like 30 minutes before I have to leave, I'm like, >> I should be reading. >> Just go read like a chapter or two." Do you prefer short chapters with your writing or speaking? >> So, when I'm narrating, I love a short chapter. >> That's okay
Performing, narrating, that's what we call it, but like it's also not really narrating
I mean, it's it's that we're we're performing
So, when I'm performing, I love a short chapter
It just feels like a little sprint, and it's nice to feel like a scene is contained
When I'm writing though, it's hard for me to write short chapters because I I think in terms of sequence
Like, every chapter is its own little story
And it's >> I honestly can see that >> very hard for me
Like, I don't write flash fiction for a reason
Like, I don't my brain doesn't work that way
So, I don't really write short chapters unless it's to effect
Like, sometimes it'll just be a couple of words or something
So, it's like really leaves like a power
Yeah
Yeah. >> I love asking authors this because then it's like I see that in your work like even just listening one chapter I think it was like 30 something minutes and I was like this is a lengthy chapter like that's pretty that's there's a lot going on in this and the next chapter was like 8 minutes and I was like okay we're we're getting to it. >> I also know you have to give people a little break
So, you know, all things in balance, all things in moderation. >> I guess that does make sense
I also didn't think about it in that way
I prefer long chapters
I think >> I totally also all of this is obviously dependent on the book. >> Yeah. >> And like a a long chapter that's just like a slo like a battle scene or something and you're like okay that's a little too long
So it depends. >> Very valid
So, now we'll get into the movie comparison questions later, but with Anna, when you were developing her character, when you were writing, what were the most important aspects that you made sure were a part of her? Because she goes through quite literally every single emotion >> on the emotion wheel, as I like to call it in my life
I have an emotion wheel and whenever I'm feeling something, I'm like, "Okay, I'm happy
What kind of happy am I right now? And why?" Or if I'm sad, why am I sad? >> That's smart
Yeah, >> that's good
So for me, I was at the time also I think this is actually we can talk about both the book and the movie because they're inextricably linked
So this has a very interesting origin story in that this book actually began life as a screenplay. >> So it started as a screenplay and it wasn't my original screenplay
It was written by Allison Bernett. >> I was hired as a screenwriter who had gone to Oxford to work on the screenplay to kind of help with the authenticity stuff
During that process, it was like a year and a half that I spent working on this thing and the rewrites
And once we blocked the script and there was actually a cast attached at that time, it got a cast attached and it was heading towards production
The producers had at this point gotten to know me and knew that I had a lot of opinions about this story and particularly to your point her character >> and what I thought it could be
And there's just certain limits spatially in real estate in a screenplay
There's only so much you can do. and they're the ones who came up with the idea of saying, "Do you think there's a book here?" And I was like, "No story has ever wanted to be a book more
It's about poetry and >> the poetry aspect was so >> it's the big questions of life
It's love and grief and loss and and it's the subject of poets and I said this should be a book." So, this is why I'm saying I think this is helpful background to answer the character question because one of the things that was extremely important to me in creating a character that could sustain a whole book, not just a movie, [clears throat] but a whole book is you want to have those contradictions, the things that like rub up against each other
So, you have this girl who's like a planner of the highest order. nothing in her life happens to her that she hasn't preapproved
But she's also this romantic dreamer who has had this dream since she was a child and wants to give herself this year of beauty and poetry before she just like locks down into a you know political life
I was grappling with I was in my late 20s at the time and I had been dealing with grief
A lot of grief in my life kind of came in rapid succession and I was processing that
But I also was dealing with the grief of losing what you thought your life was going to be about
I had been an actor my entire life
I really thought that's what I was going to do
And I was coming up against but is this what I want to do? I understand that this is what I set out to do and I've done it and I've been successful at it
But now I'm just unsatisfied by it and what do I want to do with my life? And it's that moment that happens when you realize your dreams change. >> I'm quite literally going through that right now
So, it's really crazy that you're saying that because it sounds so silly, but dealing with grief in the plans that you have for yourself is such a different I mean, you're losing a part of yourself
You know, if it's something that you've dreamed about since mine was when I was 12 years old, I was like, that is this is all I've ever wanted to in my life
And now I'm 23 and I'm like, is that really what I want or is that just something that I've thought I wanted for the past like 10ish years? And I've slowly, specifically in the past like two or three months, I've been like trying to shift that and figure out more so with what I want
And that's honestly why I started it busy
But yeah, good good for you because I think that one of the things that I I talk about a lot when I talk about this book is >> what I kind of call a pernitious social lie, which is we we always tell people, and it's coming from a good place, but we tell people never give up on your dreams
And I say, "Maybe make sure you're checking in with your dreams." There's that saying, you know, that like a crush is just a lack of information. >> I love that
And by the way, I'm like, "Yes." >> And sometimes that's what a dream is
Like everyone can start out saying, "I want to be an actor." But then you get into it and once you have more information and you see >> what it requires of you and what your life is like, maybe you don't want to do it anymore
And it's not a problem
It's not a failure to quote unquote give up on that dream
I mean, yeah, I very much agree with that
That's crazy that you're saying that, >> but that to me is what the heart of that book is
And that's why it comes down to that's a this is a book about choice
So, it comes down to that choice of am I going to continue on in the path that I've been on, which is rewarding me for who I am and what I do
And it I it's what I thought I wanted. >> Yeah. >> Or am I going to do the thing that feels right to me now with who I am now? And that's what I liked about both
Well, I guess we'll just talk about the book right now is that when she has that scene where she's on the phone with Gavin and he's offering him the job and he's like, "Yeah, like we we made it
We're here." And she's like, "I don't know." Like, and she just is in that point where she's like, "Thank you so much for this incredible opportunity that 6 months ago I would have jumped on, but now she's like, "I'm a new person
I have these new values
I have this new life
I have this, you know, I feel like love is such a crazy thing to add into it." It's like once you kind of have that person and obviously everything that they're dealing with through the book and him being diagnosed and just the whole situation that there's no world where that wouldn't affect you and change you as a human being
So, it's crazy to watch her kind of go through that and then apply it to your own life because everyone goes through those emotions. >> And there's really nothing more clarifying than that life is short realization that sometimes hits you upside the head hopefully in a way that is not personally changing your entire life from that moment forward
But that was me
I lost my father very suddenly. >> And it was this like just we all know that
We all know life is short
We all know tomorrow isn't promised
But we occasionally have to have that really brutal reminder of that
And I think that in that that was for me those two converging story lines is like when she makes the decision, it's a spoiler
When she makes the decision >> to stay, she doesn't even know if he's going to live. >> Mhm. >> It's not really about him. >> It's just I need to pursue this new version of myself rather than go back to what I was. which I liked it
It was that instead of like her saying for a boy because I feel like that is so much >> tropes
It was it was so in my and this was I was writing this back in 2016 and even then it was it was that was so important to me and that was one of the things that for the purposes again of building out the original story of the screenplay
It was like I don't want this to feel like she's staying for a boy. this has to be what she has learned about herself and the life that she has created here that's actually outside of Jamie as well
I mean she the family and the friends >> and I want to talk about the friendships because I feel like well it was a screenplay and then you turned into So when when you were in that time of transforming it were the friendships as prominent as they are now or why did you make sure that the friendships were so involved because she had her like little group of friends and I felt like that captures the essence of like being a woman and like moving to a new country
And I want to talk about your experience at Oxford as well and then like maybe you got inspiration from that or like why was that so important to incorporate it in such a large capacity. >> Well, I think because first of all, anytime you're writing a fish out of water story, which is essentially what this is, at least the first half of it is what is what this is, you have the like spirit guides, >> right, that like introduce you to the new world
And that is very much what her [laughter] they're very important
And when I had that experience of being there and going abroad and and you need handholding more it's not just going to college and like meeting a new group of friends
You need people who can like explain what and even when it's the same language but as you know the joke of like we are common culture divided by the same language
There's certain just things that you need to learn when you're there and how and I would rely so heavily on my friends to just be like >> to teach me absolutely anything >> everything
I am a baby
Just like move me through space. [laughter] >> Their culture is so different
Even when I went to London, I just was like, even the way you guys talk is completely different
Their slaying that I'm like, what? Like again, we're speaking the same language, but I'm like, I've never heard of that
Or else are slaying and they're like, what the heck? That doesn't make any sense
And I'm like, hey, it doesn't make sense to me either. >> So, that was a huge part of her just being able to, again, it's like these are not people she would normally meet in in her her life
And so, they're making her grow
They're challenging her
Um, and it's a big part of her own development. >> I also loved specifically in the book that she met, what was the guy's name that was um, when they went to the roads. >> Conor, I think Connor, let's say Connor. >> Oh my god
Well, back [laughter] check that before we put this in. >> When she meets him and she was like, "Tell me that I'm going to go on a date with a guy who's from Washington and I'm in London." Like, that's the opposite
And I was like, that is also so relatable because I've I've traveled quite a bit and it's like whenever I'm traveling, it's like I want to meet new people
There's been situations where I meet people and they're from New York City and I'm like that's not why I probably cool but not now. >> Yeah. [laughter] But I'm like not this text you when I'm home but not right now
But it's happened with friendships and like I don't know just going back to having those people that kind of take you under their wing and they're like, "Okay, I'm going to bring you to your first pub and I'm going to show you this first experience." And you know, I thought it was cute in the movie that you had the karaoke scene because I was like, "Wait, that didn't really happen in the book." I was like, "Wait, >> you know why it didn't happen?" Because that's been in the screenplay
That screenplay has changed so much over the years, but there was always a karaoke scene
And I literally just got to the part of trying to write it into a book and realized it's almost impossible to write about karaoke >> singing
Yeah. [laughter] So, >> honestly, I do I understand that cuz when he was singing Yellow to Her, I was like, "Wait, this is this is what made me cry earlier." I was like, "Oh, this is cute." And we've had there's different versions and like one version he was really good like surprisingly good and >> he wasn't bad. >> He's not the one that he can't be bad if he tried but like you but you have um the so it's changed versions of it but really for the book I was like actually for my purposes what I need is I need them to go into a snug and talk about sex and literature
That's >> and they didn't have sex the first night. >> They did
Yes. >> In the book they did
In the movie they didn't. >> No
Right
Yes
And I was like, "Wait, you're not supposed to leave?" >> I think that changed after me cuz I think I was working the version I was reverse adapting, I believe, was always that cuz I was I felt like I was stuck with that
I didn't actually want that and then I was like, "How do I make this work?" [laughter] >> So, yeah. >> God bless
So, this book is obviously written in first person. >> Yes. >> Do you prefer first person? >> I don't personally
Um, I know this is like a hot button issue right now for readers
Um, but I it very much depends on the book
With this book specifically, it was important because of the reveal and the turn when we find out that he's sick
If it were done in third person, I was afraid that the reader would feel like I'd been withholding information or lying to them
So, the fact that it's entirely from Ella's perspective and it's also first person present
So, everything is happening to her
It's very immediate. she's reacting in real time. >> Um, was the only way I could >> I felt it would it would make the turn and the reveal work
This is I get very in my head about the writerly stuff
I have a I have like one of those overpriced creative writing degrees and sometimes I think that's why it takes me like forever and I do 10 drafts of something because I overthink everything as >> but there's an answer for it
Like when you ask me things I'm like well this is why
So at Oxford, well obviously they hired you because you had been to Oxford and you could capture the essence of it
Did that affect anything in the book directly? Did it influence you to create new scenes or create? >> Yes, for sure
I mean in the book there's a lot in the book that obviously does didn't exist in the screenplay just because again we're in expanding it
There are certain things of just like culturally and the friends and also I actually just did an interview with the student newspaper at Oxford that I used to write for when I was there, but they they asked me, you know, can you comment on the aesthetic quality of movies and like what they get right about Oxford and what they don't? And I was like, I'm not falling into this trap, first of all
I was like, I know what you want me to say
I'm not going to say it
But I I talked about the fact that it is I was just there
I was back in September
Um, and it feels like a very different university now than the one I was at
Like so much has changed
A lot of the kind of class structure has broken down
A lot of the characters that feel like they're from another time, there's less of that now
And so I feel like the student experience is very different
But when I was there, it felt honestly like it probably felt in the 30s
They're just like it was it was Evelyn W's Oxford
That's what I felt I was living in
And so was that like a dream you had always wanted to go to Oxford? >> No, it I I didn't even it didn't even occur to me
I had a professor suggest doing it and I was like I didn't know I could go. >> Yeah. >> Okay, let's give it a shot. >> And so you went Did you go for four years or? >> No, no, I went for my junior year
Um my college here I went to Mbury College
Shout out >> um had a direct relationship and a very boutique program with a specific college at Oxford with Lincoln College
And what's great about it is because it's boutique, you you go I was fully patriculated
I'm considered an alum
Like I have certain access and privileges as a result
I wrote a thesis while I was there
So it was like a weird junior year abroad but way more immersive and intense and normal experience. >> Interesting
That was my one question when I was reading because I didn't do any research prior to reading the book and listening to the movie because I was like I don't want to know anything before
And my one question I was like I bet she's been to Oxford
She's had to have been like she can't not go and then write this book
So it's interesting to see. >> Yeah, people do
I mean, you know, people people can go
They could go they take the Harry Potter tour and then they decide that they can write about Oxford, you know. >> So now I want to ask questions as like a reader, which I feel like I've already been kind of doing, but I want to ask why the book had the ending that it did >> and why the movie had the end. >> Okay, this is actually great
This is actually great
So the original original original version of the screenplay, Jaime dies at the end. the version of the screenplay I was working on. >> He was alive, but you know, it was in the offing kind of thing. >> So, that's the version that I was adapting when I was writing the book
So, for me, that was always the ending was this more open-ended, not necessarily hopeful, but >> expansive ending
The shooting draft of the screenplay had the same ending as the book
Okay. >> It had a more expansive open ending. >> Even the one that actually the one that actually got filmed
Oh
Um, Entertainment Weekly, Marine Lee Lanker actually talked to Sophia and Corey about this when they were doing promo of like why it changed
It was in the editing room
So, when they were filming all of the the travel scenes, the director was just like had Corey step out and was like, "Just in case I want to get Sophia on her own and we might have so that we have this option." And they put it they changed the ending in the editing room
So, what's incredible about this is there's a 14-year difference between the original screenplay
Allison sold the original screenplay 14 years ago and then we have the movie
The book came out seven years ago
Yeah. >> And somehow in the editing room, >> the ending became went right back to the original screenplay version
And I don't ever expect like so many people were trying to explain this story of like the reverse adaptation has been I mean I've been talking about it openly for seven years
Every time I talk about this book and people ask me, "Where'd you come up with the idea for it?" And I'm like, "Well actually [laughter] >> um, but this is an incredibly like >> incomplicated thing to explain about how the ending." Most people are just like, "They changed the ending." And I'm like, "Well, okay, yes, they did
That is true." But there's a lot. >> Well, that was my thing is I was like, "Okay, I'm going to listen to the book." When I got to the end of the book, I was like, "Oh, that's hopeful." Like, you know, it's pretty sad, but they get time together. >> Yeah
Yes. >> And I was like, he's still he seems like he's healing. >> Yeah. >> Cuz they say like, oh, the traces of the melanoma is >> the uh it's a myyoma. >> They said it was getting there was smaller traces and somehow something with the blood cell count
It was getting better
So I was like, "Oh, like there is hope at the end." And then in the movie, that's why I decided to watch the movie on my subway over here
And I'm literally crying and I was like, we I love when movies capture the essence of something without words and it just kind of when from them in the bed talking about it. >> It's a beautiful and it's like they don't have to directly tell you that anything happened, but you can kind of just tell from Yeah. talk about just >> well and for me for again for me it's like my idea in the book because my ending in the book is different than the version of the screenplay like it's logistically the same he is still alive but I wanted to write an epilogue that felt like Ella again so it wasn't I was leaving for a boy she also was getting the thing she came to Oxford wanting which was to travel and she was getting to do it with him and they didn't think they'd have that opportunity and they finally do it and I wanted it to be a victory on that level as well
Not just he's alive, but we're living. >> Mhm
That would have been a great sequel. >> Yeah
Thanks. [laughter] >> I was like, wait, this would be really cute if like the second movie was about them traveling and them finally being able to get this all done
And then I watched that movie. >> Have you read Me before you? >> By who? >> Jojo Moyes. >> Okay, so it shares some DNA with my Oxford year
Um, and the se she wrote a sequel
It's actually a really good sequel
Usually sequels don't totally work with stories like this because it's like everything I was following is over. >> She decided to have a similar thing where her main character who had, you know, never really left her hometown and he keeps being like, "You need to get out
You need to travel." >> Yeah. >> And she does that at the beginning of the the next book
She's actually out in the world
Um and she like took that that legacy of him with her
Anyway, that's good. >> That's really cute. >> Yeah
I'm I'm just thinking about things that happened in the movie
The first one was Cecilia getting to go on like a first date
Remember when she gets the guy's number and she's like, "I think I'm going on a date tonight." And that was like she's a side character, but I felt so like connected with her
I was like, "Oh my god, that's such like a beautiful feeling. >> I love that character." >> Yeah
And to just be able to experience that
And I think in the movie, you guys did an incredible job of really having it play off that she seems like she's dating Jamie for a section of time where I feel like in the book you could kind of tell that something was off
Like you could tell that like, oh, >> maybe they're exes, maybe there's some kind of like history there. >> But I feel like in the movie, like especially in the scene where Cecilia is at his house when she um whips open the door and is like, "What's going on?" It really feels like they are dating and I'm like, whoa, that's just like interesting
Was that planned out to do that or I'm trying I don't remember at this point
I mean, I've read so many drafts of that screenplay over the years and I can't remember which one where we were at when I started writing it
To me, that character I always I love I have such deep affection for that character and I wanted to use her as much as possible in in the book, but I wanted to create that I didn't want it to be again that simple misunderstanding of like it's like in every romance novel where you see him giving she he was hugging some woman on the street and it's like that's my sister like >> you watch Sex in the City. >> Yeah
Oh god
Yes
Years ago
Yes. [clears throat] when she when Carrie shows up to the the church and he's like with an older woman and she's like who's that and he was like that was my mother and it's like I feel like things happen like that all the time with miscommunication relationships and it's like maybe you just need to ask them
I'm like, maybe this could all be fixed if you just >> it's all and it's the same type of tension like Ella's feeling something from her
But that's what I'm saying
It could have been an ex
It could have been like there just history
Yeah. >> Like or maybe she's going after pursuing him, but he's not having like we've all been in those situations where you're trying to read a dynamic and be like, "How much am I interfering with this?" >> Yeah
Because Cecilia comes up to her in the book or I mean in the movie and is like stay away. >> Tries to give her a warning. >> Yeah
But I don't Did that happen in the book? I don't remember that. >> No, I took that out because again, it felt like we're using her as a prop to just move the story forward and and because I had more room in the book to just like explore her and she has a little bit more to it didn't have to be that overt. >> Okay
Cuz that was one thing where I was like, "Wo, that really makes it seem like they're exes or there's something going on or there's, you know, if a girl came up to you and was like, hey, I would really watch out." I'd be like, >> it's not worth it
Yeah
Whoa
Okay, >> that's [laughter] a that's a pause
Oh, the name change of the main character. >> I don't actually know
I think I think it I think it's when Sophia came aboard and the her back Ella's background changed
Um, I do know though at one version in the screenplay the character's name was Anna and that might have just been something that carried over because I named her Ella Durand because that was my great great grandmother's name >> and I've always loved that name and I worked and Ella from Ohio has a nice, you know, That was my thing where I was like that was so >> they should have kept that in or or they could have just changed her name and put it from like what New York doesn't work the same. >> Yeah
People were actually strangely attached to that because I I and I I mean I understand why but I think coming from the Hollywood side of things I'm always just like I mean things change, things happen, but people were very much like I missed Ella from Ohio. >> I did too
I you know I'm right there with >> very sweet
I'm like so for Janie. >> Yeah
How much of the character development changed when changing it from a screenplay to the book? Um, it's a deepening process, right? So, for me, it's it's how do I understand this guy who the the main challenge for Jamie was how do you have this young, smart, attractive, driven, has it all guy who's willing to give everything up? >> How do you get to that point though? And it's like I felt like I needed to do the work around his character of having watched this watched his brother go through it having had his own experience
He's already been through one round of stem cell replacement treatment like he has lived with it and he knows that he would rather just live his life to the extent that he can have it
So for me so much of the work around Jamie was just how do we have this person who can make this decision with full integrity? And I also obviously his work, the scholarship part of his stuff, the Tennyson scholar stuff was my own little pet project
You know, >> you have to have to throw in a little bit
I thought the poetry part of it was very cute
Yeah. >> And I liked how each chapter started off with a different >> Thank you
I actually put together um last year an audio only version of it's the poetry of my Oxford year and I created an an annotated anthology where I read all of the Victorian poems that I use at the beginning of each chapter and then I wrote a little mini essay before each one explaining why I chose it and and you know like what it's about and why it's relevant to the story and so >> yeah because I feel like each of them either kind of recapped what just happened or was kind foreshadowing what was about to happen
I liked that a lot
I really >> because it's this book about poetry and it's and I also it's a book about the the big things like we said
So it's I had a little bit of I wanted to create the sense for the reader that all of these topics have been talked about and written about forever and this is just one in a larger tradition of the poets have been talking about this stuff forever and it ties it into Oxford's been around forever
People have been talking about this stuff forever. >> This is part of the human condition and it this is just another piece of it. >> Beautiful writing
Beautiful writing. >> Oh, thank you. >> I love that
Okay, now we're going to do some fun little this or thats
Would you rather? So, coffee or tea? >> Tea. >> Campus life or countryside? >> Countryside. >> Really? >> Yeah
At this point in my life, >> like Oxford? >> Oh, no
I'd be in Oxford
I'd be in Oxford tomorrow
Yeah
I would have no problem
Oxford
I could absolutely
It's my favorite place in the world
But um but no, for my own like actual life, I don't need to be on a campus anymore. >> I've never really spent time on a campus
I never went to college. >> Okay. >> So, okay
My only campus experiences I've spoken at Harvard twice
So that's like the best of the best campuses to go on
So I'm like, "Oh, that I could live there." >> I mean, yes, to be fair
Okay
Yes
Exactly
There's there's place there
Absolutely
There are and there's something dynamic about living near a college and everything that the energy that it brings in and the speakers that are around like I I'm all about it, but at this point I just like >> kids get off my lawn
That's how I feel most of the time
So, I think I know the answers answer to this one, but ebooks or physical books? >> I it's I can go both ways
I think for portability reasons, I really enjoy an ebook
I like being able to change the size of the font. >> Oh, >> you know, but I love a Oh, God
I love I love the art of a book. >> I like carrying it around
I like having it with me
I own a Kindle
I have not used it yet. >> Oh, wow
Okay
For someone who travels as much as I do, um, do I carry at least three books in my suitcase at a time? Yeah
Does it add on an extra like five pounds? Yeah
Do I need to? No
So, I really uh learned that I needed to use my Kindle this past trip that I came on
Okay, next question
Writing during the day or writing during the night? >> It has to be during the day
I actually one time was talking to Do you know V E Schwab, the author of Barry? Okay
I saw V one day after I had decided stupidly to start writing at 8 at night cuz I was just like, "Oh, I have an idea
I'm going to start writing and I did not sleep like cuz once the brain starts act and I saw her the next day and she's like, "Oh, no, honey
Don't do that." >> Yeah. >> Why are you That's a rookie mistake
Don't do that. >> Oh, see I feel like the more people that I talk to, well, authors, they say that they love to wake up at like 5 or 6 a.m. and like before anything else. >> Yeah, I don't love it
Let's be clear about this
This is this is just it needs must
Like I cannot if I will not get to it if I wait too late in the day
My brain is being used for other things
Ideally, like my perfect day would be morning relaxing, working out. >> I would start writing around like 2:00 in the afternoon
If I were doing nothing else, that would be perfect
And then wind down for dinner
That would be perfect
But that's just not the way life is structured. >> Not what happens
So we'll do plot twist or happy ending. >> Plot twist
I'm not a I'm I understand why romance has to have a happily ever after
Totally on board with that, but as a reader, it happy endings are not important to me
So, plot twist. >> Yeah
I mean, it's a I don't need that to feel satisfied
But like I said, I get it
In romance, that's the promise we make our reader is you're going to have a certain type of experience
So, >> dining at home or dining out, >> you know, in my particular situation at home because my husband's like the best cook ever and I just got insanely lucky. >> That's so that's a plus
Paperback or hard cover? >> I don't care. >> Really? I'm a hard hard cover. >> Okay. >> I just like how it I don't like that paperbacks are flimsy
That's that's a personal problem though. >> It's a tactile thing. [laughter] >> Yeah
I don't have that because again, so much of my life is digital. like it's all audio and and e and I >> just like whatever whatever they give me
Now we're gonna do some would you rathers
So we have would you rather narrate an audio book or write a novel? >> I have to say I mean completely different time commitments but I have to say right I was thinking about this the other day where I want so desperately to get back into a writing practice and I kind of like the challenge I put to myself was am I going to get to the end of my life and wish I'd recorded another audio book or written a book and the answer is >> written a book. >> Written a book
There's like 10 stories in here that like need to come out and it I would feel not >> satisfied if they didn't get a chance to come out. >> Would you rather go to a writing retreat that is like tropical or very cozy like in the mountains? >> Okay
Write for writing specifically cozy in the mountains cuz if it's tropical I want to be reading
I want to be on a beach reading
I don't want to be writing. >> That's kind of how I get most of my reading done is like if I do a beach day, who wants to go on their phone? No one
Yeah
I'll play mermaids for like maybe an hour or so and like build a sand castle, but then it's like, okay, so I have like four more hours here
Like when am I going to do now? I'll do like two or three quick rapid fires
So favorite book you've ever written
Oh, that is Do you ask people who their favorite child is? I Here's the thing
I have a soft spot for my third book, which I did as an audio original
It's called Kasanova LLC, and it's actually the book within a book from my second book, which is Thank You for Listening, which is about audiobook narrators
And the book they're recording >> is this book, Kasanova LLC
And I did it as audio
And it it's just because it was such a surprise that it ended up being so much better than I thought it was going to be
And uh it's coming out in print next in 27
I just sold it for print
Yeah. >> Beautiful
Absolutely beautiful. >> So I'm like I'm like that's a that's a special baby to me. >> A book that you wish you wrote. >> Yeah
There are there are so many
But I I wish I could write something like Wolf Hall by Hillary Mantel
Like that is a glor I just want to live in her pros >> in her world. >> It is gorgeous
And I also say this about every like Emily Henry book
So >> I've never read an Emily Henry book. >> What? >> The audio is really good. [laughter] >> Have you read it? >> I do
All of all of her stuff
Yeah. >> See, that's the one author that I'm like I know when I read her f a first book by her, I'm going to want to read every single book by her
So that's my one thing
And it's being turned into movies
So, I'm also kind of thinking like I need to read the book before I watch the movie
So, that's a timeline crunch for me
I definitely need to get >> Oh, do that
Definitely
People is one of my favorites
Do it. >> Thank you so much for coming on very much. >> Thank you for the tea. [music] [music]
