I found out next to the dumpster in my apartment complex
So, it was very unglamorous, which I really love actually. >> Well, I can't really get into it without spoiling it
It's fine. >> They need to be someone who has like no chill kind of zero chill at all. >> I have similar conversations with people
I'm kind of feeling them out, you know? Yeah. >> Like, are you going to be the one I can tell about the fairy book? because I don't want to, you know, I just had this conversation
Hi angels
Welcome back to another episode of Booked Blonde and Busy because the hottest girls read
I am Olivia Pontton and if you're new here, I am a model
I do social media
I am obsessed with matcha lattes and I read a lot
I read a lot of books
I'm not even going to lie to you
So today the author that I'm being joined by is Veronica Roth who created the world of Divergent and transparently I can't even believe that I am going to be finally able to ask her all my questions about Tristan for because it's going on
So a little background about Veronica Roth
She wrote the Divergent series her senior year of college during winter break and she was 22 years old
It sold over 35 millions of copies and it was turned into three separate movies
We have Divergent, Insurgent, and Allegent
And tomorrow, the newest Divergent book, The Sixth Faction, is being released
So, let's get into it
Veronica, welcome to Booked One and Busy
Thank you
Thanks for having me
So, we always do a beverage of the day, and I thought the best fit option for this were to be a choosing ceremony for our beverages
So I got five drinks and we are going to assign each one a different faction
So we have Dauntless Arudite Abnigation Amity and Cander
So for the beverages, we're going to start off with an iced chai latte
Which faction would you sign that? I feel like I'm going to have strong opinions about this, I think
Um, well, okay, I'm like planning ahead to the other ones
I think probably Dauntless because spicy, you know, just a little. >> Wow
I was thinking abnigation. >> Oh, no
They would never have that much flavor really
That would be against the rules. >> Okay
Okay
Okay
Wait
Now I'm curious
Okay
So, now we have the strawberry acai lemonade. >> I don't have a good justification for this, >> but I think it's cander
I'm I thought Amity >> because the colors. >> Well, I'm just looking to the future with the matcha. >> Okay. >> And I think that's Amity because it's very green and it's like one with nature
Tastes like earthy. >> We are so off its foot
Okay
So, what do you think the double espresso shot is? >> Aridite because they got to study
So, >> I thought that was dauntless
Okay. >> Okay
I could see an argument for that. >> Okay. >> Yeah, cuz it's like a an experience drinking that, you know, requires bravery
And then this is am the ginger shot is amnigation because it's basically minimize enjoyment and maximize benefit and suffering because I feel like if you take that shot it's going to be terrible. >> Yeah
I mean I would love it but I have a secret masochistic street
So yes
So those are my assessments but wow. >> You know we're literally complete opposites. >> Okay
So what were yours? >> Mine was Abnigation
Okay. >> Amd Dauntless Arudite and Candern
I don't really know why my justifications was that. >> Yeah. >> I think because >> hard beverage wise. >> Yeah
Because I'm like thinking of a truth serum and I'm like, >> "Oh, yeah. >> What is a truth alcohol?" I guess. >> Oh, maybe I should have done that. >> Should I shot a tequila at 10:00 a.m.? >> Like, what happens? The name of the podcast is Booked Blonde and Busy
So, we're going to start with the blonde part
Great
The blonde part is for misconceptions because I think a lot of people have misconceptions about me and when you are blonde sometimes just people think I'm a dumb blonde and I don't actually read and they like to be a little nasty with that. >> So what is the biggest misconception that you think people have about you? >> Um I think probably that divergent is the only thing that I've ever written
Mhm. >> Um I the Divergent series is great and it started my career and also was the most attention getting series and or book of my career, >> but I've written six other novels and three nollas
So, >> uh yeah, I encounter that misconception a lot just because you know when something in your when your career like has a big shadow that everything else kind of gets stuck in the shadow which is >> just how it is
But >> how do you feel about that? I think it's a little frustrating when you're trying to like grow as a writer and um spread your wings a little, which like everyone wants to do, right? So, it can be frustrating as a result of that
But, I mean, it's also a gift to have a book do that well
So, it's hard to complain, you know? >> Um, >> yeah
Yeah, >> I always say that that about like my life is when like I accomplish something so crazy and big and it's like then I have like a passion project that's something to the side and I'm like wait but this is this is just as important as that. >> Can I interest you in this other thing? >> Yes. >> Literally my life. >> Mhm. >> So for the audience who might just know Divergent and don't know the amazing mastermind behind it, could you give like a little introduction on like who you are? >> Sure
Well, I'm Veronica Roth
I grew up in the Chicago area
Um, >> really? >> Yeah
Yeah
Uh, you mean my whole life story right? >> Okay
I mean, it's not a very interesting life story
Um, I went to college and I studied writing um in the Chicago area
I went to Northwestern University and then I sold Divergent in my last year of college. >> Everything. >> How is that like just how >> I didn't go to college so I can't even begin to imagine this, but like you're going to class and what you get like an email? Uh yeah
So what happened is that I took an easy course load to finish the book and then um so I wasn't in class when I got the call about it, but I was definitely still enrolled in school
So I got to go and tell my professor, you know, that and she took me through the English department and just like told everyone, even if I didn't know them, she's like, "Here's a student." She sold a book, which was so so sweet
Um and it was it was really exciting
But >> I found out next to the dumpster in my apartment complex
So, it was very unglamorous, which I really love actually. >> Yes
The smell of garbage and some guy throwing away his trash and me getting a book deal, which is pretty fun. >> If you had to like classify yourself into a faction, which faction do you think you would fit in? Or like pieces of >> Well, none of us should fit into any of them, right? Um people are complicated
But I think if I I've gone through the ringer here as far as what I've identified myself as, but I think right now I'm in an arudite place. >> Yeah, I think they get a bad rep in the series
Obviously, that's my fault, but >> they're very curious people who are engaged in the world around them, and that's their best quality, and I try to be a curious person, too. >> Do you think most writers are aridite because of that curious component? >> I think there's probably an argument there. like it's a you have to have a fundamental interest in people in order to write stories
So, >> um >> you know, some more than others probably, but yeah, there's a little touch of that. >> I would love to go to a choosing ceremony
By the way, >> what would you choose? >> What would I choose as my faction? >> Yeah, it's kind of about what you feel like you could endure because they're all terrible. >> Like, whoa
I've actually never thought about that. like they're all the like I guess I don't think they're terrible but like I can see like there's always a a con to it like there's a negative to all of them. >> Yeah. >> H I think I would like I kind of have to choose Dauntless because of Tris for it
So >> see I was trying to embody it today actually. >> Yeah, I like it
But I just think like as a young female watching that and watching Shaye embody this faction that she had nothing from like she went she was from Aigation which was very just like you wake up you do the same thing every day. you're just you're very selfless
And then going from that to in my opinion the complete opposite of just like go go go like you have to think about yourself and like watching her have that uh brain altercation was kind of inspiring
Not that I can relate to being a talis at all. >> Yeah
Well, she couldn't at first either. >> Yeah
So, I guess it works
So, you just have to have grit, >> honestly
Yeah
Which maybe I need more of that
I definitely don't have grit
I could >> What are you like absolutely obsessed with right now? Like your I always have like obsessions of the week where I like like right now it's cookie dough
I can't stop eating cookie dough every single night before I go to bed
What's your like kryptonite in a good way? >> Yeah
I'm trying to think
I'm trying to think of anything that I've done this week at all
Um what am I I'm re-watching The Vampire Diaries right now
Yeah
I just had this feeling like it's fall
What do I want to watch? So, you know, I'm going back
So, maybe nostalgia is sort of what I'm obsessed with right now because it's not the first time I've done something nostalgic this like recently
We just watched Clueless like me and my husband >> last week
Yeah. >> Which is so good, by the way
It holds up. >> Yeah, >> it really does
I think the same thing about Vampire Diaries
It's like >> Oh, that does hold up
You know, Nina Dobrev is actually great. >> Yeah. >> Very good. >> And the way that she played like what was it? three different characters and I'm just like >> and she would play the other character pretending to be the first character which is a layer of acting
No one gives her enough credit
She's so good at that show. >> I agree
So, we're giving her credit right now. >> Yes. >> What do you like absolutely hate right now? >> What do I hate right now? Oh my god
Um >> sorry, I'm trying not to get political. >> Like something like >> You know what I hate? uh AI right now because I'm realizing that um it's hard to trust anything on the internet and this is of course prompted by Mitch McConnell, but it is just like you can't trust any pictures, any videos and I'm like this is actually destroying us
I think >> I agree
I My nana keeps sending me videos of like dancing rabbits or like things that like kind of look real like I could see where she's coming from. >> My mom does that too >> and I'm like look at this beautiful bird
It's like no it's fake real
So, if there's a fan of Divergent watching right now, what's a book that you would recommend them to go and read or like a fan of you in general? What's like a book that they should go and pick up right now? >> Well, if people missed it in the 2010s dystopian nostalgia, they should read Legend by Marie Lou because I think it's underappreciated from that era
And if they want something more recent, then they should read Coldwire by Khloe Gong, which is also dystopian
Um, cyber punk and just like a great cast of characters
So, in that sense, it is very divergent. >> I haven't read either of those. >> Oh, well, that's that's my fall TBR cuz dystopian is like, >> oh, I just need to get into it
I am like a dystopian girl
Like, that is my genre
Like >> yeah, >> like I also like the romanticity of it all, but like a dystopian world where there's like a system of how the characters are supposed to be in one like that >> that is me
Um >> it's like a personality test. >> Yeah. >> Do you like Do you like personality tests? Okay. >> Like yes, but I'm just like this is how I identify
Mhm. >> And anytime I'm at like a dinner conversation or like a in a dinner conversation and we're talking about books, cuz that comes up uh quite often in my life and someone's like, "Yeah, like what's a book wreck you have?" I'm like, "I'm only going to give you like very nitty-gritty like romantis or dystopian." So, I was like, "If that's not your jam, just let me know because I'm not going to give you a good book wreck if you don't like it." >> I have similar conversations with people
I'm kind of feeling them out, you know? Yeah. like are you going to be the one I can tell about the fairy book because I don't want to, you know, >> I just had this conversation literally this was probably like a this was last week during fashion week and this girl uh was sitting next to me and you like I don't know if you ever relate to this but like she was trying to like show me up that she like reads more than me and I was like hey girl like I'm this is not a competition the most. >> Yeah
I'm like you're good. and she was trying to like I felt like she was trying to belittle me by the fact that I was just recommending like fantasy books to her and she was like oh like I recommend like Pride and Prejudice and I was like hey like great for you I'm not going to go down that route but I love that. >> Yeah. >> Speaking of that route I feel like you're well I feel like the books Divergent are often like wrapped into the world of like Hunger Games like Harry Potter like Maze Runner
Like do you identify with that? Like do you would you say that it's in that route or do you think it's just something completely different? >> No, I think you know there were a lot of books coming out around that time that did really well and of course they're always going to feel like a like a pack kind of like the books that maybe got you into reading or that >> because they occupy such a place of prominence um they were maybe the first thing you picked up and read all the way through as like an independent you know young adult
So they are like always related
Also, of course, you know, The Mazer Runner and Hunger Games, they are all part of this dystopian YA phenomenon that we were we were all embroiled in
Um, >> so obsessed with literally obsessed. >> Yeah, >> it's still my guilty pleasure
Are you going to watch the new Hunger Games movie? >> I haven't uh read the like additional books in the series because honestly, those books are like they're hard, like emotionally difficult
So, um I'm always like, "Okay, well, when I'm ready." And I just feel like there's really never a time that you feel ready for like teens murdering each other
So, I just I I haven't uh watched the movies cuz I haven't read the books yet. >> Okay. >> I will, but eventually >> when I'm feeling like sturdier >> as a person. >> That's why I'm a little I watched the recent uh Hunger Games
I forget what it was called
The one that came out I think last year
Ballad of song words and things. >> I watched that and that was um incredibly gruesome. >> I was like it is 2 p.m. on a Tuesday. >> Yeah, I know. >> I just have this strong sense memory of the fourth Twilight movie >> where he like gives her a C-section with his teeth. >> Yeah. >> Just screaming at the top of my lungs
Sorry, I know it's different the Hunger Games and Twilight, but Yeah. >> It's 2 p.m
Literally. >> Is she giving birth right now? So, the sixth faction, can you give us a little pitch on it? >> Okay
Yeah
So, The Sixth Faction, like Divergent, if you've read it, um, is set in futuristic Chicago
Societyy's divided into five factions
We know this
We've sorted the beverages. >> And each one is based on a particular virtue
And in the original series, uh, Beatatric Prior chooses Dawnless
But in the sixth faction, she chooses something else because tragedy strikes at the choosing ceremony and it changes the course of her life forever
So that is the premise of the sixth faction alternate universe divergent
But you don't need to have read divergent to read this book. >> See, and that's what I cuz I've obviously I've read the sixth faction and I was I didn't know research before reading
Like I didn't even know she didn't pick Dauntless
I was just like, "Oh, okay
I'm going to start reading." It was I finished four and then literally that night I started Sixth Faction
Wow
And like I'm not gonna say anything because I don't want to spoil anything, but like I was like it's happening like I think Okay. >> Yeah
Yeah
That's that's a great thing
But cuz how many pages in does um I guess I can say this part like does the maybe I can't say that like the choosing ceremony how many pages into the book is that in Sixth Faction? >> I think it's like 40. >> Yeah, cuz it's pretty off rip
And I think for me a good book is like within those first I would say like 75 pages if it can grip me into something that's like action something's happening it's like oh I'm going to be obsessed with this. >> Oh good
Yeah it is slower than the first Diver when I went back to reread Divergent
You know it had been like 10 years since I read it before I wrote the Sixth Faction and I was like wow this really starts fast
I don't know if I'm capable of that anymore. >> But yeah >> interesting
So, I'm going to read a quote from your Substack that you came out with
So, the quote is, "The Sixth Faction is not primarily a revision
I wrote it to explore something new inside of something old." A lot of people were expecting for the Sixth Faction to be like a retraction of Allegant. >> Mhm. >> How do you feel about that? >> I feel like um I think people kind of sometimes impose like their opinion on me as far as Allegent
So, I the problems I have with the series, which of course I have problems because I wrote it 15 years ago, right? And if I was uh like if you're growing, then you're gonna have like criticisms of your old work
That's how it works. >> Um but the criticisms I have are not the same as the criticisms that readers have
So, they obviously don't like the way it ended, which is fair
You know, that's fine
But, uh I kind of like it
So, >> I like I loved the ending. >> Well, I'm glad. >> Yeah
Yeah
And I didn't even know the discourse that people didn't like it >> until I read the book. >> Yeah
People still have feelings, like very strong feelings about it, which, you know, is cool
It's a testament to like how much the book resonated with them
But yeah, >> but no, I was literally sitting on my couch balling my eyes out while reading. >> Well, you didn't throw it, which I feel like Or did you throw it? That's good
Yeah
I was just more so like there's not that many fantasy books that have made me cry or like in that general uh genre I guess. >> Yeah. >> And I just like I don't want to say anything cuz again I don't want to spoil it but I was just like I don't know if heartbroken is the right word but just like no. >> Yeah my girls. >> I know it is sad
And when I reread it recently >> Mhm. >> for the six faction, I was like, "Oh, that hits me different now cuz I'm older and I understand how young she is >> in a different way." So, I do have like more complicated feelings about it than I used to
But in general, I want to honor my past self by saying >> that like I still like the >> Yeah
Okay
That's Well, that's good. >> Why do you think you returned to this world? I feel like it gave you such like an unrest like emotion. >> I think that's why
Yeah
After I realized because I still get messages, I get the sweetest messages from someone who will be like, I love Divergent and I'm in the middle of Allegant and I'm like, "Oh god, how's this going to go?" But um yeah, I'm still hearing from readers who are picking it up for the first time
And so I realized that if I'm carrying around like obviously Divergent is such a positive force in my life for the most part, but I do carry baggage because of the way people reacted to it throughout and just being so exposed to people in a big way at such a young age. >> So I thought in order to make it that baggage feel lighter, I needed to make something new and feel like there was something generative there like that was restoring me as a creative person
So that's why I even started writing it. >> Yeah
Was there something that surprised you while watch or not watching while writing the Six Faction like about yourself? Yeah, I think um it's not always obvious to people, but no one is harder on divergent than I am
Like I'm so critical of my past work and I've kind of >> justified that by saying like I would like to grow from it, but I think it's also just like an anxiety disorder problem, right? Um you're just really hard on yourself like if you have anxiety or maybe that's what causes the anxiety
Hard to say
But I think what surprised me is that I felt more inclined to be kind to my past self and appreciate what she did well
You know, obviously the books are not perfect, but >> I think they're perfect. >> Well, I'm so glad you like them
I know it's always hard
I'm like, I'm not trying to tell anyone else that they can't think that they're perfect
Um, but to me, you know, they have a lot of flaws and I understand that, but there's so many things that make them compelling and I think rereading them and writing the Six Faction made me celebrate those, which was part of the goal
So, I feel a lot more peace about the books than I used to, which is what means that the book already the Six Faction already did what it was supposed to do for me. >> Wow, that's incredible
And also like just like hearing you say that is like I don't know if like protective is the right word but I'm like I love like you don't understand like I love this series like it every time when someone's like oh like what's your favorite like movie I'm like girl like you so like to hear you say that is like so mind-blowing because I'm like okay yes there's I mean if you're referring to flaws like I see where you're coming from but at the same time I'm like that's what makes it perfect
Like that's what I love about it. >> Yeah
I think um it's like that applesauce thing where you have to have a couple bad apples to sweeten the batch, right? But um when I was approaching the next faction, I said to myself like you can't try to fix this because you're going to take away the things that make it fun because the like >> uh earnestness of the books is part of what makes them enjoyable
So, you can't go in there and like try to be uh this like I don't know mad scientist about it like and make it the perfect book somehow
You have to let it breathe and be as flawed as the original work. >> Um which is what I tried to do
Just let it be a new thing. >> Mhm. >> I do have like a detailed question about this extraction. >> So, for people who are watching when you get the book, you'll notice that it's written from different point of views. >> Yeah
What was because we see Caleb's perspective for the first time >> just a little in case anyone is worried. >> But like like why? >> Well, I think one of the problems that I did identify in the original series is that you don't get to know Ariodite at all
Um you see them from outside which works to a certain extent because you see it from Tris's eyes. >> But I wanted to get inside the faction a little more
And I also wanted to develop Caleb more
Um, he's sort of a villain in the original series, which I feel it's been out for over a decade, so I feel like it's okay to say that
Yeah. >> And, uh, I think he's a he's a sympathetic character to me and like kind of a tragic one
He gets taken in by this woman who is manipulative and very smart and he, you know, she compliments and praises him and he's never experienced that before and so he gets kind of sucked into this world and I just thought it would be an interesting thing to explore, especially like given the relationship between them and yeah all that. >> Interesting
I've actually never thought about it from that because I've just always I'm like I hate Kayla. >> I know
I mean I don't I don't love him either but he is young >> and he has spent his entire life told to like suppress himself right so she so obviously she does something good with it and he does not but you know >> he does actually the opposite by the way >> yes I know but >> two there are two wolves inside each of us >> do you think this is like the end of Divergent for you >> well there's you know the sequel last testimony comes out in February and then um you know I've said that I wouldn't write anymore more before, so I'm not going to say that again
But it does feel like this accomplished the goal that I had at the start
So I would have to be struck by like a really good idea
But >> interesting
Sorry, I'm just crossing that
I'm like, "No, please don't
Please don't please don't end it." Okay
Being able So you've written this book, The Six Faction
You've now had time hopefully to be able to like step away from it and like understand
Do you like the book? >> Yeah, I do
You do? >> Yeah, I do. >> Okay
What's your like favorite part? Yeah, I like the love story actually. >> It's hard to talk about without spoiling it, of course, but I like the the dynamic that they have in this book and the way >> like I think you can appreciate it on its own, but also the way it's similar and different to the original love story
Like I just really I enjoy their connection and I love um my favorite character who isn't Tris is uh Evelyn, Tobias's mother
So I'm happy that she's in this more
It's exciting. >> Interesting
Yeah, I know
I love a complicated mom. >> The most complicated mom that like when I was reading her through Allegiant and just like I like her. >> Well, you don't have to. >> But that's not why I like her, you know, because she's likable
I just think she's >> complicated. >> She's definitely complicated cuz even like the beginning Well, I can't really get into it without spoiling us. >> But there was just certain things that she did that I just was like, why? Like just wait. >> Like like like why? Like I don't even why like so many open-ended questions. >> Some of them will be answered in the next one
I promise. >> Oh, okay
Well, that's good
So, we're going to get into the busy part of the episode, which we're going to play a little game
So, you've read at least a few book talk fantasy books
So, I'll explain these characters a little bit
Okay
Um, have you read Fourth Wing? >> Yes. >> Okay, so we're good
So, I'm going to name like fictional characters and I want you to assign a faction to them. >> Okay
Oh my god
Okay. >> So, we have Zaden from Fourth Wing. >> I mean, isn't aren't they all in Dauntless? All the Dragon Rider people. >> Yeah, but I'm like he's also like would he be like a Dauntless leader? >> I mean, he's sort of like in a similar position to four
So, yes, >> honestly
Um. >> Yeah. >> Okay
So, we have Zayen Dauntless
So, we're going to have Hermione. >> Hermione
Okay
Um, Harry Potter, >> right? >> I was kind of thinking that, but like I guess sidetrack really quick
If you were to assign a fictional character like to a cander, like who would that person be? >> Um, like any fictional character. >> Yeah
I'm trying to think of uh like a truthful like cuz I was even trying to think about this. >> Yeah
I mean anyone who's like loud and argumentative um this is going to be such a deep cut like Greek classic style but uh Antiggony >> play Antiggony
Yeah
She basically will not shut her mouth and gets into trouble which is excellent
So someone who believes that like the highest form of kind of bravery is to speak speak the truth I think is a is a good cander
So a lot of our like you know political radical like >> big our leaders. >> Have you ever watched Suits? >> Yes been a while. >> I like don't know their actor's names but um >> Harvey from Suits the main guy
I feel like he's cander. >> Isn't he like a little tricky though? >> I guess he could kind of be aridite
Yeah, I think he's too clever
Like, uh, >> honestly, okay, >> cuz they're kind of not subtle
They don't believe in subtrauge
So, >> they need to be someone who has like no chill kind of >> zero chill at all. >> What about or I guess asking, have you read Varity by Colleen Hoover? >> I have not. >> I was going to ask Varity Crawford
I don't know. >> Let me think who I would say. >> Yeah, you you you got it
I think Varity would be Aridite because she's an author >> and she has that like curious component to her, but she's also just like a freak
So I'm like I mean they could like that doesn't exclude her, you know? >> I know
So I'm like maybe I'm trying to figure out who a good abnigation is. >> Yeah, I was struggling with that one. >> I mean I guess like any self-sacrificing hero could be an abnigation. >> You think? But I feel like they have to make a specific like I feel like most self-sacrificing like in like this genre specifically it's like they're like dragon is dying so they're like oh just save my dragon I'm going to or something something crazy like they're going to give themselves up
I feel like the heroins are the ones who get into amnigation
Women are so like overrewarded for self-sacrifice
Um and so it feels like inevitable
They're both brave but also like yes I will destroy myself for the one I love
Yeah
What about Katniss Everdine? >> Mhm. >> Yeah, I think Kat Yes, Katniss's main big decision is to sign herself up to be murdered basically to save her sister
So, that is so abnigation. >> I agree
I was back and forth with her if it would be Dauntless or not because she does have that >> component of doing the actual games and winning. >> Well, something something selfless and bravery are not that different. >> Yep
Honestly, yeah
So, which faction do you think I would be in? Or would you think I'd be divergent? >> Well, you seem like a very curious person, so maybe you'd be arodite. >> Um, yeah, but you also have a podcast, so you might be cander >> where I never shut off. >> No, talkative, but also honest
You know, >> my dream is to be divergent. >> Well, like the new world, not >> Oh, in the new world
Yes. >> Mhm. >> Okay
Well, thank you so much for coming on Book Fun and Busy. >> Yeah
Thanks for having me. >> The Sixth Faction is coming out October 6, so don't forget to get it
Thank you, Angel, so much for watching
Don't forget to subscribe on Spotify and I will see you in a bit
Love you.
